Sedevacantism

Papal-throne

Seems to me that one can swing a sock filled with manure in a crowd of Catholic traditionalists and eventually hit at least a couple of sedevacantists.

I am not a sedevacantist, and I don’t believe I will become one — I pray I don’t. I lean towards the traditionalist camp, but even then I’m not fully a traditionalist. However, I am curious about the sedevacantist position. I hear this term frequently, especially since I’ve become curious about the traditionalist position. What is sedevacantism and why would someone go there? And what are the arguments for and against the position?

Below are some interesting videos on that topic. By no way do they represent an exhaustive take on the subject. I present them here merely as a way to broach the subject. I lean strongly to the side that says the pope is the pope, good or bad, and our duty is to show appropriate obedience, even if is a struggle. But I find each of the arguments have at least some merit, more or less, for various reasons. (I must say this topic is a complete rabbit hole of endless videos, websites, and conspiracy theory arguments.)

I agree with the video above, in that we should learn more about what sedevacantism means.

Below is a curious artifact. This is a “film” in the pro-sedevacantist camp. If what it presents are actual facts, then what it presents is truly troubling. On the other hand, it feels like a bunch of speculations and dubious claims strung together as facts by some conspiracy theory nutters. And it’s “style” is exactly what one would expect from a group of crackpots living on the fringe any social group. As an artifact it is interesting just for that. BUT… I think it is still worth considering for several reasons: 1) If it is true, then we should know these facts, 2) If not entirely true, it still represents what a number of Catholics (who are trying to be faithful, but may be apostate or nearly so) believe, and it is good to know what these folks believe, and 3) If it is patently false, then at least we can know what crazy ideas not to believe.

Still, I am a bit troubled by this video:

Perhaps someday more facts will come out and we will have a clearer picture of what happened in those conclaves. Honestly, the deeply troubling actions on the part of cardinals and bishops regarding the sexual abuse scandals on many levels that we are daily discovering makes believing in the evil shenanigans of yesteryear more plausible in my mind. It’s become less and less far-fetched to believe in the work of the devil in the Church throughout much of the 20th century.

God come to our assistance.

The perennial Catholic Answers team on more that one occasion has taken on the questions of sedevacantism. Here are a couple of responses from their shows:

I like Catholic Answers. I am not convinced by their answers here. I don’t think they are entirely on the wrong track, but I believe there are decent rebuttals to their answers. I don’t see the “gates of Hell” argument making a lot of sense here. And I don’t see the sedevacantists saying the gates of Hell have prevailed. We’ve had troubles in the past, we will in the future. I think the stories of Job and of the Babylonian captivity can both be seen as images of suffering individual Christians as well as the Church as a whole can and will experience. In both cases it would appear that God had deserted his people. None of this says that the gates of Hell will prevail. God did not abandon His people. Also, every time a pope dies the chair is empty. Sometimes the chair has been empty for years. So I think the Church can suffer through without a pope for a time.

But is it now? I doubt it. Could I and Catholic Answers be wrong? Yes.

The following video is perhaps the best answer I’ve heard from a sedevacantist on the “proper” stance that a sedevacantist should take. I don’t know if there is such a thing as a proper stance, but if there is I think this might be it:

Finally, I think this homily below perhaps says it best. Sedevacantism can be very alluring. It is a temptation to anyone who is very bothered by the fallout since Vatican II. It is a temptation to anyone who struggles with our current Holy Father. It is a temptation while in the midst of the systematic promotion and support for sexual perversion and predation on the part of priests, bishops, and cardinals. How could a good God allow all this to happen? Well… God has always allowed a great deal of evil to trouble His people at one time or another. But God is good. His will be done. Let us not fall into pride.

Still, I am curious about the whole Cardinal Siri story.

siri

Giuseppe Cardinal Siri

3 Comments

Filed under Authority, Catholic Church, Church History, Curious, Dogma, Eschatology, Kingdom of God, Tradition, Truth, Video

3 responses to “Sedevacantism

  1. tony arlyn

    Hello Tucker, I hope all is well. I have been following your recent postings. I wonder if you have landed as a traditionalist in regards to the Pre -Vatican II Latin Mass without embracing sedevacantism. I grew up in the early 60’s as a young Catholic attending the Latin Mass at Saint Paul’s Church in Irvington, New Jersey, before Vatican II. I am interested in how you are sorting through all this. I am also very familiar with Father Malachi Brendan Martin’s writings. Hope we can catch up in the future. Thanks Tony.

    • Tony, great to hear from you. I hope you are doing well. I suppose I lean strongly toward the traditionalist camp. Currently we go to a Novus Ordo Mass at our local parish, but it’s in an older church building, somewhat conservative, with a good choir, so there tends to be a rather more solemn and reverential spirit about it than one might find elsewhere. I would say that the more I learn about what a human being is, and what proper worship is, and about the Real Presence in the Eucharist, the Traditional Latin Mass seems more aligned with all that. When I can make it I go to a TLM across town on the first Saturday of the month. I would say it is more like what I imagined a Catholic Mass would be when I was studying Catholicism from afar. Seems to me that the changes after Vatican II did not accomplish what many thought, and have even cause a great deal of unfortunate trouble. Still, I’m just really happy God led me to the Church, and I love going to Mass where I can.

  2. Pingback: Taking on the Sedevacants | SatelliteSaint

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